Friday, March 04, 2005

Arroyo is gone, but the talk continues

They say the month of March comes "in like a Lion"......instead I think I'll come in with "I hate to whine about the whiners who are whining about old news, but I can't resist, and must get it off my chest so I'll beat it to death with a big stick".

Therefore, my Whiney Sports Mumbling Rant...

I keep reading articles in the Salt Lake Papers about Carlos Arroyo and how the Jazz miss him and how great he is doing for Detroit (reference, Jo-Ann Barnas article for Detroit Free Press picked up and ran in Salt Lake this week). I've even read opinions sent in to the newspapers and other online sites by fans who hate the trade of Arroyo and are mad at the Jazz and mad at Coach Sloan in particular. The point they are missing, and missing, and missing (they could stop shooting and missing at that point, but since Carlos hasn't stopped, why should they), and missing....is Detroit is asking him to be a part-time helper. In Detroit he is a back-up and averaging only 18 minutes per game. In Utah, the Jazz thought he was the man who could embrace the team's philosophy, lead the team, play heavy minutes (35 per game), and basically make those around him better. Truth is, he did not play well this year, despite the contract and faith the Jazz put in him. Truth is, he got on the wrong side of Coach Sloan, and while some of that may have been Jerry's fault and this league at times may be run by the players, the Jazz never have been. He was woefully immature and continues to complain that no one talked to him, as if, Carlos had no idea where Coach Sloan's office was. I for one am tired of reading his quotes and tired of all the fans who continue to push this side of things. Its a team game, but Carlos chose to make it about him and didn't like the result. I've said a million times...I'd rather lose with the right guys than win with the wrong ones. If it took giving in to a player who demanded kid gloves and special treatment to win, I'd rather lose. Is Carlos a bad guy? Whoa, that's not the point. I liked Carlos and enjoyed the good times while he was here, but unlike great players in this league he didn't fight through adversity. He isn't as valuable as people make it seem, and to hint that he means more to the Jazz than Sloan (as many have done) is idiotic.

To Carlos I say,
"take care Carlos, may you end up better than the other guys who left thinking they could do better outside the Jazz system (see: Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, DeShawn Stevenson, etc) . I'd like to send some of your Utah fan supporters with you, but you know how they are...fickle, as soon as they see that the grass isn't greener, they'll be bagging on you in no time."
My guess is with the recent improvement of the Jazz and Keith McLeod, and Arroyo's failure to really change the fact that only 5-6 guys on the Pistons really carry the load, that this issue will die down. Come next summer when the Jazz have the money from the Arroyo contract to spend elsewhere and an extra first round draft pick, people will be glad the Jazz held to their principles and really evaluated the situation for what it was.

In the spirit of statistical overkill, and to convince those that still wish to argue the over value of Carlos Arroyo, I offer the numbers below (thanks to the www.82games.com for the +/-). The result is that both teams, Utah and Detroit, have been better while Carlos is on the bench.

+/- points
Carlos in Utah (this year): -7.3
Carlos in Detroit: -6.4
Keith McLeod (Utah Starter): +2.5
Chauncey Billups (Detroit Starter): +4.9

Shooting %
Carlos in Utah (last year): 44.1%
Carlos in Utah (this year): 40.1%
Carlos in Detroit: 39.0%

Minutes Played - per game
Carlos in Utah (last year): 28.3 mins
Carlos in Utah (this year): 24.7 mins
Carlos in Detroit: 18.7 mins


To assert that Arroyo and his 39% shooting and 18 minutes per game is the reason, or even a critical influence, for Detroit's hot streak (winning 8 of 10) makes only slightly more sense to me than heaping extra praise on the hot dog vendors at Auburn Hills. I mean yes technically they are there, and yes in some remote way they are making an impact on the things inside the building, but its really only a coincidence that they are associated with the Pistons at a time when they are rolling.

Whew, all better now. Until the next article...

10 comments:

Frank said...

Jazz recent improvement? Don't kidding me

Frank said...

Andy, try to convince me and put the shooting % statistics of McLeod. "In the spirit of statistical overkill," put the shooting % statistics of McLeod. I'm waiting for you. "recent improvement of the jazz and McLeod". Ja,ja,ja. Don't make me laugh.

AndyinUtah said...

Frank, thanks for your feedback. Yes you are right, McLeod hasn't had a good shooting year and hasn't gone on to seize the PG position. However, when I wrote that (March 4th), in his previous 7 games he was averaging 10.6 pts, 5.1 ast, 3 rebs, and shooting 42% in 28.4 mins. Combined with the fact the Jazz had won 3 straight at the time, definately made me feel there was "definite improvement" at the time. You would have to admit, Arroyo has been a bust this year even in Detroit. The fact the Jazz got a 1st round pick for him looks like a steal.

ALEXIEYI said...

A 25 PICK IN THE DRAF A STEAL?.IS McLEOD AN IMPROVE FOR THE TEAM?
WAOOOOOOO
ARROYO HAVE A BAD YEAR BUT STILL A BETTER POINTGUARD THAT McLEOD OR LOPEZ

AndyinUtah said...

Arroyo may be better than McLeod and Lopez, but since he only had one good year we may never know. The Arroyo of last seaon? yes for sure, but who knows if we'll ever see that player again? The first round draft pick is for 2006, so I'm not sure what pick it will be, but I'd say even at #25, when combined with the fact that Arroyo cost $4 Million per season for three more years, means he was too expensive for a backup, so it may be a good deal for Utah.

Frank said...

Thanks God you're alive! For many reasons, Arroyo doesn't have a good year. By the way Andy, you say nothing about Carlos injury. You know Arroyo had a nose injury and surgery? By medical prescription he has to use a protective mask, but he don't use it because it causes discomfort.
Arroyo trade was a steal for Utah? Don't kidding me. To be an steal, Jazz needs to select the next Michael Jordan in the 25th pick of the draft (this is the pick they received from Detroit). By the way, the comments are 2005 draft don't have a lot of talent. At this moment, the trade of a late first round pick that represents uncertainty (an unknown player) for a well known, young, talent and experienced point guard looks a good trade for Detroit.

Utah don't signed Arroyo for a backup assignment. That's Sloan decision. One of the baddest decisions of Sloan this year. Look at Jazz record: 23-51.

Frank said...

Thanks God you're alive! For many reasons, Arroyo doesn't have a good year. By the way Andy, you say nothing about Carlos injury. You know Arroyo had a nose injury and surgery? By medical prescription he has to use a protective mask, but he don't use it because it causes discomfort.
Arroyo trade was a steal for Utah? Don't kidding me. To be an steal, Jazz needs to select the next Michael Jordan in the 25th pick of the draft (this is the pick they received from Detroit). By the way, the comments are 2005 draft don't have a lot of talent. At this moment, the trade of a late first round pick that represents uncertainty (an unknown player) for a well known, young, talent and experienced point guard looks a good trade for Detroit.

Utah don't signed Arroyo for a backup assignment. That's Sloan decision. One of the baddest decisions of Sloan this year. Look at Jazz record: 23-51.

AndyinUtah said...

Frank, I'm still alive! Actually I got picked up by MVN. Check out All That Jazz for the latest columns I've written. I appreciate your comments, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the Arroyo deal. I'd love for the Jazz to have the Arroyo of last season, but nobody knows where he is. For the player he is this year, I think the Jazz made the right trade. I am not alone however in saying that Arroyo is over paid for the player he is now. Check out USA Today's overpaid and underpaid players. I hope he gets his game back, but it probably won't happen until the summertime, at the earliest, when he gets a break.

Frank said...

Hello Andy. Well, "the right trade" sounds better than "a steal". That's the second time you change your mind after my comment. Good Andy. But the problem is you (and some Jazz fans) try to justify the unjustified. You act like Jerry Sloan when he tries to justify the poor performance of Keith McLeod. When you don't convince with the statistics jump to the pick the Jazz received, you don't convince with this argument and jump again to the overpaid issue. What next Andy?
With reference to the overpaid issue, Arroyo was a bargain for Utah last year. This year he is overpaid. Maybe the next year Arroyo returns to the top list. I don't know. You don't know. That's the way the inversions work. Arroyo was an inversion but the Jazz don't give him the opportunity to improve his performance. The overpayment wasn't an strong reason. Why the Jazz don't trade Snyder? He is in the list in front of Arroyo. The Nets will trade Jason Kidd? He is in the list too. It's ridiculous and you know it. The true reason for Arroyo trade was Jerry Sloan. Period. He turns the issue in a personal matter. He doesn't want Carlos in his team. Period.

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